I think it's time for a new topic. Discussing todays game in the Pre-season tour topic seems wrong.

All in all I think today was a rather average match. But listening to how Jose described it I think it makes sense not to expect much more. Many players are not fully fit yet and we're changing our style somewhat, which surely plays a part.

I think defensively we did very well in the first half - they didn't really threaten much. In the second half we weren't as good, but overall it was a good display. Fellaini's mistake was bad, but other than that I think we contained them pretty well. Bailly was impressive, even though he gave away a few stupid fouls and the rest did what you'd expect of them.

In attack I think Rooney was very disappointing. Probably the only reason why he played so many minutes is because Mourinho probably hopes that his touch will improve when he gets to full fitness. It makes some sense to do that I guess. I just think that if we had played Mkhitaryan in his position, we would've been much more dangerous in attack. Interesting to see who gets the nod next week.

Lingard did well. Superb goal - didn't expect that from him. Maybe he's improving and can get to a level where he's more useful than just a squad player.

Zlatan was somewhat disappointing, although mostly because my expectations are sky high. And then he scored a very good goal. Under pressure and in off the post just out of Schmeichel's reach. That's just the class he brings to the team. Great to have someone like him playing for us.

This has potential to be a great season.

chuksi wrote:

Lingard did well.

that was really good!!

chuksi wrote:

Zlatan was somewhat disappointing, although mostly because my expectations are sky high. And then he scored a very good goal. Under pressure and in off the post just out of Schmeichel's reach.

not bad goal from offside)

chuksi wrote:

This has potential to be a great season.

very hope so)

Last season many of you critisised on Lingard, I always had faith in him...he's just "putting his nose" with the big boys, so give him time, he'll be great. He showed it all game (until he was forced off) vs Leicester...for me he was MOTM, with Bailly close as n°2.
Also Fellaini did very good (ok, he made a terrible mistake with that back-pass, but he got the ball in the first place!)...also something I'm saying for 3 seasons.

Rooney was poor, he is a danger with the ball...he loses it to much, he's losing it big time...

I'm still not convinced by him. I think that he has some good abilities and some weaknesses. But for me his good abilities aren't up there with the best players. And this means he is likely to play a minor role for us. He's already old enough that he won't get much stronger and quicker or more technical or develop a better vision of the pitch, which I think is important from an attacking player.

Just like Ashley Young has his strong points, but isn't good enough to play in the first 11 week in week out.

That said - Lingard is a useful player and I don't mind seeing him play. But if we had someone like Bale in his position, then it would take a lot of pressure off the other attacking players and leave them with more room.

If he continues to score goals like this, then great. I just don't expect that to happen.

He did well yesterday, but at United's level you need to do that every week. I'm not sure he does that. Maybe he will improve, but I think he just doesn't have that something extra to separate him from the average PL wide player.

Fellaini was fine yesterday. He made a bad mistake, but unless such a thing becomes a habit I don't see a big problem there. I still feel that with the ball he slows things down a bit too much and it hurts our attacking flow. He gets into good positions but doesn't take advantage when he gets the ball there.

I agree on Rooney. I don't think he's going to get back to the level he performed at 5 years ago. It's going to be a tough task for Mourinho to deal with it. Especially as he's named him captain and probably needs to drop him soon. Can't see us getting a good price for him either nowadays.

Lingard will prove himself, he has done it in many occassions last season and will do it over and over.
Young to me is a surplus in the team and could be sold as we also have Mhiki and Depay for those positions.

Fellaini doesn't slow the game more down then Carrick or Rooney do, but he's got that extra power that the 2 former don't have. I still like him and he can play an (important) role for us.

Rooney should go on a (too) big transfer to China, India or MLS...

I think Lingard last season had a 'young player' discount in terms of how most people rated him. He was inconsistent and we only remember the good parts. But he's at an age where you really should perform near your peak.

After all what did he do that much last season? 6 goals and 4 assists in 40 games is not even average. I think Lingard seemed good last season because our expectations were rather low. Compared to some others he did well, but could you compare him to.. Mahrez? Alli? Lamela? Özil? Silva? Even Sterling of last season who was very underwhelming?

As for Fellaini - he surely slows the game down more than Carrick. With Carrick the ball moves forward whenever there is a passing lane open. With Fellaini.. perhaps he runs forward with the ball, but then it stops. Either he passes to someone who is under pressure and we recycle the ball and start the move again, making his previous good turn useless or he passes simply out wide to someone who doesn't have a dribbling chance. Or just doesn't make anything great with it. But he's a useful player in midfield because of his ability during set pieces and his discipline defensively. That makes up for his average ability in attack.

I agree about Rooney. Against Leicester and for most of last season he slowed things down because he either needed a second touch or just miscontrolled it and killed the tempo of the attack. In that position it's something you can't afford to do.

I think it was wiser for Mourinho to name De Gea captain, as he was the only player who would play all (or most) of the games. There was also a good reason behind that, as De Gea was our best player three years in a row, so it wouldn't be undeserved.

Now, with Rooney as a captain, either Mourinho can hope Wayne gets back to good form soon, or he will be forced to move him to the bench soon, for the greater good. We know that the most important thing for Mourinho is to win games and once he makes sure we are better without Rooney, he will probably not hesitate putting someone else in the starting 11 instead of him.

We have lots of players capable of playing in number 10 role, starting from Mkhitaryan, but also Mata, Pereira, Herrera, and some others. I'd also give it a try with Ibrahimovic behind Martial or Rashford in a striker's position, which would be more like a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1.

There are many options, but right now Rooney doesn't seem like the best of them.

We have lots of players capable of playing in number 10 role, starting from Mkhitaryan, but also Mata, Pereira, Herrera, and some others. I'd also give it a try with Ibrahimovic behind Martial or Rashford in a striker's position, which would be more like a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1.

I doubt Herrera is a good number 10. He has looked unsure of his duties in that position. He'd be a good player there in a functional role where we're ahead 2-0 in a two legged tie and go to play the away game and his main role would be defensive, but even then I'm not sure whether he's the best choice. As Fellaini could be more useful there as he would also be a target man for us.

But I agree on the rest of the players. And Pogba is probably a decent option in that role as well to add to that list.


I think that with Zlatan as our number 9 we'll see a lot of running beyond him from our wide players if the opposition defends high up the pitch. Zlatan does drop deep and plays as a playmaker when the opposition keep a high line. He is intelligent in that way and also has the skills to drop deep and be effective(IMO very effective even). That leaves space to run into by others. Which is another reason why I'd rather see someone else behind Zlatan. Because Rooney is not going to make effective runs behind the defense.

I'd prefer a line-up of:

De Gea
Valencia-Smalling-Bailly-Shaw
Pogba-Carrick
Rashford-Mkhitaryan-Martial
Zlatan

So that if Zlatan drops deep then we'd have three pacy players ready to exploit the space behind the defense. We'd also have Pogba and Carrick who can play a killer pass from a Zlatan lay-off(I'm not sure whether the others are good enough passers, Herrera maybe is but Schneiderlin and Fellaini probably aren't. Blind maybe is as well).

Basically this transforms into a kind of a diamond 4-4-2 at times where Martial and Rashford are the furthest players, Zlatan is the playmaker and Mkhitaryan and Pogba are the outside midfielders while Carrick guards the back four and starts the moves.

De Gea
Valencia-Smalling-Bailly-Shaw
Pogba-Carrick
Rashford-Mkhitaryan-Martial
Zlatan

Chance Michael "Backpass" Carrick to Fellaini or Lingard and I agree...

I think last season I read something that from our midfielders he had the largest proportion of his passes going forward.

I don't understand wanting Lingard as a CM/DM to be honest. He's not a midfielder.

chuksi wrote:

I think last season I read something that from our midfielders he had the largest proportion of his passes going forward.

I don't understand wanting Lingard as a CM/DM to be honest. He's not a midfielder.

That I can't believe...

No, didn't say that...replacing can be for the player not position...put Mhiki back and use Lingard and Martial as wingers...

Genuinely can't wait for tomorrow and the start of the season

Not had this excitement in a few years, Mourinho and his signings have brought that back, despite not having CL football we've been able to sign the best players from France, Germany and Italy. And Bailly looked very promising in the Community Shield (against Leicester). And having Luke Shaw back is like a 5th signing

Can't wait for tomorrow, can't wait for the season, the buzz about United is back

Daamn.. Can't disagree about that! To be honest, Shaw back in line is like 5th and 6th signing of the summer as imo there were 2 types of Memphis last year- with Shaw and without Shaw.. I just hope that Mourinho did saw that and at least few times start them both together to prove me wrong or right (surely without proving ME anything)..

Yup, the transfers have created expectation. Both the players and Jose as well.

Yesterday I think we did really well. Martial fell asleep for their goal, but otherwise it wasn't far from a perfect performance. Defensively we were really sound, even without Smalling. Offensively it was not the best performance, but considering that Mkhitaryan and Pogba didn't start I think we should be happy.

The first two goals were lucky and somewhat lucky, but I think we put them under more pressure than anything that happened last season. And then Zlatan's goal was just something you'd expect from him. Now our opponents will know that they can't give him ANY space. He'll just punish the team who does give him space. Nice statement from him to put it away from such distance. The backheel flick to send Rooney through was another piece of magic that probably only he can do. Once our team gets to know him better and learns to anticipate such first time balls he will start making even more of an impact.

With Mata scoring it creates an interesting situation where maybe he won't be sold?

And yeah - Bailly looks very good. Seems like Mourinho has made four great purchases this summer. If you think about it then we now have the best goalie, the best LB, possibly the best two CBs in Bailly and Smalling, the best CM, the best striker and very good players in other positions. That's just a start of a great team.

I think this season the Europa League might be good for the squad as well - we can give a lot of minutes to the younger players/squad players there, giving them a chance to impress and stake a claim for the first team. There are a lot of games and perhaps that's a good thing.

think I'm starting to like Bailly. My only fear is he's going to pick up a really bad injury due to his style of play at some point, a la Vidic.

I thought we moved the ball well, some slop in midfield but our defenders did well to clean up any messes.

I feel the Zlatan and Rooney duo is gonna be fun! Martial will get some goals coming in off the wing.

I just like everything this team showed me, especially for the first game of the season. I haven't felt this enthusiastic since SAF left us.

Any idea who will get paired with Pogba in the center of the park? If it's Fellani the physicality of our midfield is unreal, I however want someone who can string a few more passes together to be paired with the mighty Pogba.

I think it will depend on who we're playing against. I'd play Carrick against sides who sit deep and offer little in midfield(like WBA). I'd use Herrera against average sides who press higher up the pitch. I'd use Schneiderlin or Fellaini against stronger sides. I think Mourinho will want to create an established midfield instead.

I think it's rather interesting to see how these things develop. We have a lot of options there.

And we have quite a few options in attack as well.

Rooney waaaaaayyyy too slow & touch way too heavy. He's not quick enough to work with Zlantan. I think it's going to be Zlatan & Rashford before end of year.

Buggle wrote:

Rooney waaaaaayyyy too slow & touch way too heavy. He's not quick enough to work with Zlantan. I think it's going to be Zlatan & Rashford before end of year.

I still have a soft spot for Rooney. Odds are Mkhitarian will fill in for Rooney. Still against weaker teams I expect to see Rooney thrive and I will love it. Also he still has clinical passing/playmaking, the dude can be a surgeon if he has time.