What I told is that is disgraceful to play for 0-0. I follow United for more than 25 years and I don't remember we ever played this way, as we always went to win games (at least in the league), not draw.

City's defence is not unbeatable, we had a chance to surpass them and we needed to try at least, instead of going for 0-0.

I think you're very wrong here. The gameplan wasn't to play for 0-0, but to defend and counter. Which is playing to the weaknesses of City. Their defense isn't very good, especially against quick forwards like Rashford.

They also don't have strong attackers, which meant that they'd find it hard to create good chances against us as they can't use the physique of their attackers. Bailly and Blind will win the duels against their opponents most of the time. They did manage to create a few great chances and we were somewhat lucky that Aguero missed two of their best chances.

This also suited our midfield, where we were depleted and couldn't choose the combination of players that we might have wanted to.

After a very good game as a striker, Martial was again pushed on the left wing, almost left back, which is another error imo.
Shaw doesn't play again, while Darmian doesn't offer much in the offensive part.

Rashford is better as a striker and you can't play against City with two strikers. They'll crush our midfield that way and create many more chances.

As for Shaw - while I like him as a player I think he hasn't earned the trust from Jose. I can understand why. He doesn't have the right mindset. He is a defender and that has to be his first concern. Sometimes it feels like he wants to be a ball playing footballer too much and takes too many risks. Most of the time they come off but sometimes they don't. Against a high pressing side like City I think he might have been a player that is capable of giving the ball away cheaply. While Darmian is limited, he plays like a true italian defender. He does whatever needed to keep a clean sheet IMO.

Young was very good lately, but he was on the bench again.

And he should've played instead of whom? Martial? Darmian? He has his qualities, but I'm very unsure about him in such types of games as a defender.

How many chances did we create? Maybe our only real chance was when Herrera missed the header in the end of 1st half.
At first I also thought we would try with counter attacks, but we couldn't, as we didn't have a possibility to do it with only one player running against 3 or 4 defenders.
Guardiola is too smart to let us hit them on the counter like that and it was especially difficult with Kompany back in their side.
It was OK to be cautious but we had to show more wish to attack, instead of having 10 men on our side of the pitch for most of the game. Moreover, City did play less games lately, but they also had injured players and they played 120 minutes against Arsenal after our 90 mins against Burnley. People seem to forget that, with Fergie we also played tough EPL and we were often in the final phases of Champions League, but anyway we mostly played attacking football until the end of the season, despite injuries ans fatigue.

Guardiola is too smart to let us hit them on the counter like that and it was especially difficult with Kompany back in their side.

Really?

His teams have always been mediocre against counterattacks and this was a good thing to exploit.

It was OK to be cautious but we had to show more wish to attack, instead of having 10 men on our side of the pitch for most of the game. Moreover, City did play less games lately, but they also had injured players and they played 120 minutes against Arsenal after our 90 mins against Burnley. People seem to forget that, with Fergie we also played tough EPL and we were often in the final phases of Champions League, but anyway we mostly played attacking football until the end of the season, despite injuries ans fatigue.

People also seem to forget how in 2008 we played total defense over 180 minutes against Barcelona in the CL semis. Fergie quite often turned to such tactics in specific games. Just like Jose does. They know the limitations of their teams and choose the tactics to fit the match.

I agree that we did have multiple competitions and a lot of matches with Fergie as well, but the circumstances were somewhat different. The quality of the squad was somewhat better and the players were all used to playing the way Fergie wanted them to. Right now we have a good but not great squad, where missing a few players takes it's toll. Look at how we missed Pogba against City. He surely would've made one or two throughballs to Rashford and created the chances.

The difference between 'good' and 'bad' rotation is the quality of the players on the bench. Leicester keeping the same 11 for almost all season last season was the right decision because they just had about 11 very good players, but for United in 2008 would've been stupid. There changing the team from game to game made a lot of sense.

I also think that it's been Jose's first season in charge and he wants to stamp his authority on the team, which means that things are done his way and if someone doesn't listen, he will happily let that player move on. That means he can't really rotate if he doesn't trust the players on the bench. In an ideal world he could've rotated more early in the season to avoid the accumulation of fatigue that inevitably increases injury risk, but he also wanted to get the team playing like he wants. He's achieved the second part largely as the only significant loss since the start of November has been in the FA Cup against Chelsea. And that was because Herrera got a red card and in that match we weren't THAT inferior even with 10 men. We've had too many draws and I think Jose is right to be critical of some of the attacking players as a result, but generally his methods have worked.

I think he knew that he was taking a risk by not rotating as much, but at the same time he needed to take that risk to get his message across and make sure that the team evolves. I think he hoped we'd get lucky and not have that many injuries and now is just playing the media by complaining and trying to keep the media pressure down while behind closed doors the message is different.

As for the match tactics against City - I think they were the only possible tactics in the circumstances and the team did well to execute them. I think Fergie would've played the game similarly. There is no shame in having a defensive gameplan away at one of your biggest rivals.

Read a good article on this topic: (http://www.espnfc.com/club/manchester-united/...f-ucl)

He's achieved the second part largely as the only significant loss since the start of November has been in the FA Cup against Chelsea. And that was because Herrera got a red card and in that match we weren't THAT inferior even with 10 men.

It was nice to see how the team played until that stupid red card. In 11 I think United could have beaten Chelsea, Mourinho used the same tactic he used in the league game. I was surprised Conte did not change anything in the 2nd game, I surely thought he realized the danger United posed in the early parts of the cup game.

Guardiola's City was weak in defence when Kompany was injured and when Zabaleta didn't play, but with their knowledge and experience, they are much better.

Moreover, we didn't really give them a tough job, as we were mostly down on our half and haven't really pushed much to try and attack.

I was really hoping to see more effort in attack. OK cautious game, but not too much. We were like most of smaller teams who come to Old Trafford and that left me a bad feeling.

We did miss Pogba badly, I already said that, but if I was Mourinho I would risk a bit more and tried to change something when I saw that we are not dangerous at all. We played something like 4-5-1 with both wide midfielders very low, so the only guy in attack (usually Rashford) found it very hard to make himself dangerous. What were the chances of something like that to work? Maybe against Demichelis, but not against both Kompany and Otamendi, especially not with Martin Atkinson who didn't give almost any small fouls.

Getting back to Pogba, the reason for is injury is because he was overplayed. There were games he didn't need to play, there were situations he could have been subbed and given some rest. Mourinho and his coaches surely knew that Pogba was in the red zone, so he could have been managed better. For example, if he knew Pogba was in trouble with fatigue, why didn't he take him off against Burnley in the 2nd half, at least in the last 15-20 minutes? Mourinho is complaining too much about injuries and schedule, but that is what you get when you are running a big team. If this is the situation, then give some more trust to some young players. Fosu-Mensah could have played many more games, Tuanzebe as well, Shaw didn't play enough, neither did Martial or Young. I am not saying they should have all played against City, but could have been used more in rotation earlier, to avoid the main players being over-fatigued.

Fergie's teams got to the end of the season less tired, because he did more rotation, gave trust to more players and risked some more.

Against Barcelona in 2008 we did play defensively, but it was the 1st leg of a cup game, not a league game where we needed points. However, my point was that this City is surely not Barcelona.

I respect Mourinho and his calculations, he probably thought a point would be enough, but it hurts me to see Man Utd play like that, that's all.

I read the text and I especially noted this:

United had just 31 percent possession, their lowest since such statistics were measured in the Premier League, and had just three shots in 90 minutes.

Not really something to be proud of.

However, not a bad text, viewing the situation from all angles (which I already did) and giving some credit to Mourinho for defending well. I don't have a problem with that, I just said we should have tried to attack a bit more, with a couple more players in some occasions.

Now, I think Mourinho must absolutely give rest to Bailly against Swansea, even if it means playing Tuanzebe in central defence. He can also play Darmian as a central defender, with Shaw on LB, but Bailly must be rested.

Getting back to Pogba, the reason for is injury is because he was overplayed. There were games he didn't need to play, there were situations he could have been subbed and given some rest. Mourinho and his coaches surely knew that Pogba was in the red zone, so he could have been managed better. For example, if he knew Pogba was in trouble with fatigue, why didn't he take him off against Burnley in the 2nd half, at least in the last 15-20 minutes?

I agree that he could've done a few things differently. But then again I wouldn't be so sure that he was in the red zone. Think about other top players like Ronaldo and Rooney at that age. They played all games, except the games in the league cup and fa cup against the lower league sides and rarely got injured back then. Pogba seems to be as ambitious as those two and probably works out as hard as them as well and keeps himself in top condition.

I wouldn't be so sure that Pogba was in the red zone. He had two weeks of rest during the international break from travelling and football and played 45 minutes in two of the games after that as well.

I agree with you that Jose's substitutions aren't like the ones we were used to with Fergie, but then again Fergie never managed to cut down the number of injuries either. I was hoping that Jose would come and help us and for long periods of the season that looked the case. Maybe we're just unlucky with injuries right now.

Fergie's teams got to the end of the season less tired, because he did more rotation, gave trust to more players and risked some more.

To be honest I think the tiredness thing is just something that Jose has been saying to divert the media's attention. He said we were really tired before the Chelsea game but we put in a great display there and the tiredness was nowhere to be seen. And after the game he smirked and said that it was a bluff basically.

I do agree that Fergie was the master of rotation, but as I already pointed out, there is a small difference between great rotation and just tinkering with the team. It only works if the second choice players can carry out the gameplan well enough. I think that the second 11 at United haven't so far earned Jose's trust and he just hasn't been able to rotate because of that. He knows that it's a ruthless business and that results are key. Had we endured a mid-season slump because of rotation, then everyone would be talking about how Jose has lost it and isn't a top manager any more and how he should get fired etc. Now he's managed the team so that we're in a good position.

I think you yourself have pointed out how you don't like some of his team selections, because you think he's not picking the best 11. Do you want more rotation or the best 11 playing? Can't really have both...

Against Barcelona in 2008 we did play defensively, but it was the 1st leg of a cup game, not a league game where we needed points. However, my point was that this City is surely not Barcelona.

I think the weaknesses of Guardiolas teams have been the same all the time. Doesn't matter what team he has. It's a structural weakness. His teams are just average defensively. The other weak link on Thursday was Yaya. But we didn't have Pogba to exploit that. Fellaini did get on the ball often enough but couldn't take advantage. I think Pogba would've sealed the game for us.

So I think the tactics were spot on.

Now, I think Mourinho must absolutely give rest to Bailly against Swansea,

I don't know. I remember how Rio-Vidic played all the important games in spring in their prime.. Darmian-Blind just doesn't feel like a good pairing. We can't take Carrick out of midfield either. And we need to win that game.

I think you yourself have pointed out how you don't like some of his team selections, because you think he's not picking the best 11. Do you want more rotation or the best 11 playing? Can't really have both...

Well, not really...

I was maybe saying that Mourinho should have chosen a different starting lineup, that he is not using best players in some positions or uses some players in positions which are not their best.

I never said that he shouldn't rotate, though.

So Neymar posts a picture of himself out on the town with his sister. Is it just me, or is this a truly weird fucking photo?

(https://www.instagram.com/p/BTl2qSqjldB/)

What sister sticks her tits into her brother like that for a photo??

I would rest Rashford tomorrow and start Martial as a number 9, with Mata, Mikhi and Lingard (or Young) behind.
Pogba and Herrera (or Fellaini) in central midfield, while the defensive four depends on availability.

Carrick and Rashford would be on the bench, in case we need them to come on.

It would be great to bring home a positive result, in order to concentrate on Sunday's game against Arsenal

I'd do the opposite. Jose knows how to beat Wenger. He's like the rock and Wenger is scissors. We'll just soak up pressure and hit them on the counter. They won't be good at stopping counters. They never have been. We have enough pace upfront to just kill them.

Put out the best team to beat Celta and get a few away goals. Then the tie is done and he can rest a few players in the home leg.

I'd do the opposite. Jose knows how to beat Wenger. He's like the rock and Wenger is scissors. We'll just soak up pressure and hit them on the counter. They won't be good at stopping counters. They never have been. We have enough pace upfront to just kill them.

Since we are probably going to play on the counter against Arsenal, then it is even more logical to rest Rashford against Celta and use him on Sunday, when he would be more fresh and hungry.

He has played a lot lately and playing him tomorrow then again on Sunday might be too much and he might not give 100% in this way. If you want to get the best out of players, you need to know the right "dosage" of football you give them.

Put out the best team to beat Celta and get a few away goals. Then the tie is done and he can rest a few players in the home leg.

It depends on what you consider our best team at the moment, considering the fatigue, injuries and form.

Imo, our best attack tomorrow would be the one I indicated earlier, as those players are not as fatigued as some of the others.

Ajax playing a great game against Lyon!

Their attackers' price will rise very much after this game, especially Traore, but also Ziyech and Younes.

I knew about Dollberg, but I haven't seen those other kids before, they are very, very good.

However, the defence of Lyon is full of holes like a Swiss cheese, so they are contributing to the impression of how strong Ajax attack is.

TBH I don't know how Celta defend. I think they're Spanish, so probably higher line, higher press. So there should be space for our forwards to run into. Hopefully Pogba is fit to play, we need his passing. If not, then surely Carrick is the key player for us.

I'd play Rashford anyway. He's young, he'll recover in 3 days easily. The same for our other attacking players. They're all young. Play the best in both games.

My best front four would probably be Rashford up top, Martial on the left and Lingard on the right.

The midfield for me is Carrick, Herrera and Pogba ideally. If Pogba isn't available, then I guess Fellaini will play there instead.

chuksi wrote:

TBH I don't know how Celta defend. I think they're Spanish, so probably higher line, higher press. So there should be space for our forwards to run into. Hopefully Pogba is fit to play, we need his passing. If not, then surely Carrick is the key player for us.

I'd play Rashford anyway. He's young, he'll recover in 3 days easily. The same for our other attacking players. They're all young. Play the best in both games.

My best front four would probably be Rashford up top, Martial on the left and Lingard on the right.

The midfield for me is Carrick, Herrera and Pogba ideally. If Pogba isn't available, then I guess Fellaini will play there instead.

It's weird listening such words from you! :) Haven't been close to the HT las couple of months but even before that you were the one who actively preached that Lingaard is not our lvl.. :) So as Fellaini if I recall it right. What has changed your mind?

I think you're confusing chuksi and Nemanja.

Also I'd tend to agree that he's not up to the standards as a full time starter. He's a nice role player to come in every other match or so, but we really should aim for better for the best starting XI.

Yeap, sorry. I was thinking about chuksi. :)

Nah. I think Lingard is a good role player. And in this kind of a game we needed pace in attack. Lingard is the modern Ji-Sung Park for me. I liked Park and thought he was awesome in his own sense.

I think you're confusing me Nemanja. He doesn't seem to rate Lingard much.

chuksi wrote:

Nah. I think Lingard is a good role player. And in this kind of a game we needed pace in attack. Lingard is the modern Ji-Sung Park for me. I liked Park and thought he was awesome in his own sense.

I think you're confusing me Nemanja. He doesn't seem to rate Lingard much.

I don't rate Lingard much, but I'd accept him as a bench player, as he is quick, has a decent shot and works really a lot.

On the down-side, he is often a weak link in our passing chain, often betrayed by his not-so-great technique, often pushed away from the ball too easily and even if he tracks back a lot he doesn't offer much when it comes to defending.

Furthermore, I think that his new wages of about 100k pounds (or even 120k?) per week are way too much for a player of his quality. Those are the wages of a first 11 player and I don't think he possesses the quality to be considered a starter.

Now, even if Jose' brings better players in the Summer we would find it very hard to sell Lingard until the end of his contract, as I doubt anyone would offer him nearly as much as he is earning at United. His quality is on the level of a mid-table team and such teams just can't pay these wages.

He's a homegrown player, that makes him very valuable. This is especially the case since we still don't know how Brexit will affect Premier League player registration rules.

And that's ignoring his contribution to the team in the past 2 seasons. The guy scored some very important goals. Imho Lingard is the kind of player you keep as long as possible even as a reserve player, selling him would be a mistake.

I'm not sure we're seeing the same player on the pitch from the desrciption you give about him. I just don't agree. I think he is decent on the ball. Not great, but not a pushover like you seem to describe him. He defends well, the energy he offers is really important as it starts the press from the front and that's really helpful for the rest of the team and makes their job much easier.

I think that such wages are going to be the norm nowadays for good players. Lingard is good. Not special, but good. I'd think that Park was on 60k/80k as well in his prime and the amount of money United makes has more or less doubled in the last 10 years. 100k is the new 50k for a club like United. I also wouldn't be sure that the papers have the right numbers there. They often make those things up.

As for selling him - I don't think we should, so that's not really an issue. He is a versatile player who is homegrown and works well for the team. Every team needs their O'Shea's and Fletchers and Lingards. They keep the United mentality in the team and they do their job. You can depend on them to do their job. Just like Fellaini does his job. He isn't brilliant, but he plays the role the manager asks of him. Better players often want to impose themselves on the game and don't work so selflessly for the team and want to play more regularly. Surely if Schneiderlin were happy with being a bit part player we would've kept him, but he didn't want that. The fact that some very good players like Lingard, Young and Fellaini are happy to be bit part players and also work hard to be ready when they're needed is key to a top squad. One could say Valencia is also the same, but he has taken the right back role and showed more quality defensively than we probably guessed :).