we already have a group of experienced players who are used to winning, like Carrick, Valencia, De Gea, Herrera, Mata, Matic, etc.
Also the younger ones like Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Bailly, Pogba all seem pretty self-confident.

Out of these players, only Pogba has the kind of personality to drive the rest of the locker room. I respect Carrick a lot, but he's a very quiet and reserved individual and despite his excellent achievements with the club he isn't cut for leading the line [kinda like Scholes, brilliant player but certainly not fit for captaincy]. Valencia is about the same [i think he does speak English though, only not good enough to feel confident around the media which is fair enough imho]. De Gea certainly doesn't strike me as someone with leadership qualities. Herrera does have leadership qualities, but he's slotted in as an "experienced player who is used to winning" which beyond his last year and couple of months [so I'm including LVG's FA Cup] he didn't have, or at least certainly not enough to say that he's in any way comparable to Ibra. Mata has more experience of winning but he's a big softie and not the person to lead a locker room as much as I like the guy. Matic is more in line with what you say, but the guy's just arrived. Rashford and Martial are no leaders despite being confident. Lukaku maybe, but he needs some time with the squad before claiming he's central to the locker room.

My point is that Ibra's resigning is a good thing. No fee was paid for him, his salary is most likely lower [not like United really cares about that], he's a proven performer and has a very good relationship with Mourinho. Also having someone with his personality in the team is a gift because it's an extremely rare combination of traits those that he has. Most importantly it seems that Ibra's personality rubs off well on Pogba et co, kinda like Cantona's rubbed off on the whole squad back in the '90s. And we all know how highly the Class of 92 rated Cantona's importance in their developlent. Choosing a second-rate player like Jovetic instead would offer only downsides when compared to Ibrahimovic's importance.

chuksi wrote:

I think your worries are unfounded. I think you're underestimating Zlatan. I don't think he is the type of a person who doesn't see the big picture of the team.

Exactly.

His "I am Zlatan. I'm the king of the world. I'm greater and bigger than any team" is a "figure" that's built up more than Sir Alex and Mourinho's huge personalities in the press.

I've never heard anything bad about Zlatan since his early 20's about attitude, personality or anything else from his clubs. Sometimes, you just create something bigger to take the blame (like Ferguson ALWAYS took all the attention, not because he didn't care about his players, but because they were left alone to focus on playing then).

I'm a HUGE fan of signing talents like Martial, Depay, etc. and develop them in our amazing setup, but getting Zlatan (back), even at this age, is like striking gold.

So - we got Benfica, Basel and CSKA in the CL draw. In all fairness we should win those games.

I hope the game in Moscow is as early as possible, because the weather in December can be pretty damn bad there.

Otherwise the opponents are among the weakest in each group. Should give Jose a chance to rotate quite a bit and that should help our league campaign.

Benfica is also a good chance to see some of the top talent in Portugal. :-)

Well.. they sold Ederson, Semedo and Lindelöf this summer. So perhaps the best talents there were picked up this summer and they've spent just 4m of that money so far. It seems like they're just not so good this season.

Portuguese top teams, like Ajax, tend to uncover gems by the dozen. The real task is figuring out which of the gems are worth anything. ;-)

Lamba wrote:

Portuguese top teams, like Ajax, tend to uncover gems by the dozen. The real task is figuring out which of the gems are worth anything. ;-)

Eh? ;)

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Ajax)

I'm in favour of re-signing Ibra if he's to be used in the way everyone here thinks he will. Trouble is, I'm not sure that's accurate. Jose is very loyal to his people, and Ibra is #1 on his people list. I can see Jose using Ibra over Lukaku, which I would find troubling.

So we'll see.

Ok, I could've worded that differently. :p

Portuguese top teams tend to uncover gems by the dozen, much like Ajax in Holland. The real task is figuring out which of the gems are worth anything. ;-)

tbh if Ibra is fit, I don't see a problem in using him mainly or in a time share with Lukaku.

Or as others have pointed out, as the #10 behind Lukaku.

That's the beauty and mystery about chemistry. You cannot just get a group of people and then bring "a leader" and see improvment. Different teams need a certain team and different teams need a certain leader.

For starters there are many ways to lead a team. The second is that different teams need a different leader. Without seeing the real dynamics of the team it's impossible to say what kind of leader you need. Different teams need different leaders.

If you are going to sign "a leader" you cannot know id he works for the team or not untill you see how the team reacts.

For me a good leader is not someone who leads in a certain way, but rather one who can lead in a way that the team needs.

I don't agree with Paul Merson's opinion very often, but he was spot on here:
(http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f...latan)

What a load of rubbish that man is talking. As always.

The basic argument that 'he doesn't sign to be on the bench' is already flawed. He surely knows that it is a football team and the players who perform best will play. He knows his abilities perfectly as well(he knows he isn't that pacy so he doesn't run the channels as much nowadays) and that means he will work with Jose to find a solution where he'll be of use to the team. Making the assumption that he is a diva who will pout when not chosen for every game as the starting number 9 is just a load of rubbish.

The argument that United don't need him because we've won two games 4-0 without him is also quite rubbish. Although the two games have been enjoyable I'd argue that in both it hasn't been that one-sided until the opposition opened up and left space for us. We've played well, but bigger tests lie ahead. I'd also say that it's kind of pointless to compare the two seasons. Last season was Jose's first and he was trying to get the team used to his methods, his way of playing and that surely played a part in us not being as fluent. Not to mention a number of new key players who had to adjust to the league etc. Having that stability and the confidence from winning two cups surely has helped the team.

One good comparison springs to mind of how strong the team is now and how fragile it was last season: Last season when Mkhitaryan didn't get games at the start of the season it felt like a big loss while this season Lindelöf being given time to adjust feels like it doesn't affect the first team at all.

I'd be willing to make a bet that Zlatan isn't going to be a disruptive figure in the squad this season. Although I can't think of any criteria that would prove/disprove that. I think he'll surprise you greatly.

There's also the issue of games piling up. Surely you can't rely only on Lukaku and Rashford/Martial [who also battle for spots on the left wing] until May, you need someone to share some of the load.

I agree - I think there are enough games for all our player to be happy and enough players to help keep everyone fresh for the bigger games.

Well, I wouldn't certainly agree that it was rubbish what he said.

The basic argument that 'he doesn't sign to be on the bench' is already flawed.

If you know Zlatan, then you know he'll want to play. Maybe not every minute of every game, but he is not a kind of person to sit behind in a shadow.

Making the assumption that he is a diva who will pout when not chosen for every game as the starting number 9 is just a load of rubbish.

He never said that.

The argument that United don't need him because we've won two games 4-0 without him is also quite rubbish.

He also never said this and you are just turning it around, in order to make it look bad.

Not that I want to defend Merson. As I said, I often don't agree with what he says, but you gotta admit he said some things right this time, even if you don't like it.

First of all, he said some simple facts and you don't have to be a genius or ex professional player to see those. For example, Ibrahimovic did slow us down and we do look much better now with Lukaku upfront. Zlatan did score lots of goals (and missed a lot more) last season, but the others did not always look too good around him. Now, with Lukaku upfront, we look clearly better as a team and we play faster football, as all the attacking players have pace and look very compact. I don't see a reason to make big changes to that. It is surely not because we won two games against WH and Swansea, but because we finally seem to be clicking upfront and playing as United should play.

I know very well all the positive sides of Ibra (winning mentality, great in build up play, etc.) but I think you (and lots of people generally) are exaggerating and overlooking the negative side.

Looking at the technical and tactical side, the only way that his comeback can be acceptable is if he plays a bit part role as an impact substitute, when we need to add a striker, especially against teams that defend deep. Or as a number 10 in certain games.
I hope that was José's plan, but at the same time I am afraid that he didn't bring Zlatan back just for that role. Therefore, I am afraid that he will be playing lots more than we thought, once he gets back to fitness.

I also hope Zlatan will be used more as a number 10 than a number 9, and his "upgraded" :) shirt number gives me faith it's going to be the case.
Moreover, I can just hope he will be more prolific this season in front of goal, as last season he often missed those chances you wouldn't expect him to miss. You will now say that no one can score in every chance, but you know well he did miss a lot last season. Don't just look at number of goals he scored. You, at least like to look at statistics, so remember that his percentage of turning chances into goals was not impressive.

Anyway, my main point is that I like the football we are playing now and I don't want any player to slow us down. I know well that we only played two games against weak opponents and we cannot play the same against every team, so I repeat - if Zlatan has been brought back only for a certain role, then it is OK and I can live with that.
But, if José has a plan to play him often in the first 11, it is not what I'd like, especially as it would mean pushing some great young players to the bench or out of the team. Said that, I still think last season we could have been better off without Zlatan, had Martial and Rashford played more as a number 9 and if Depay stayed as a left winger. With the arrival of Ibrahimovic, Martial and Depay were pushed out, while now it can be the same Martial to receive less playing time, maybe Rashford and maybe Pereira. United should raise and cherish those young talents, that was always in our DNA.

Making the assumption that he is a diva who will pout when not chosen for every game as the starting number 9 is just a load of rubbish.

He never said that.

I guess you understand what was implied there. The main point was that he would be disruptive person if he isn't the main man.

If that's not the point, then what is? If he isn't disruptive when he is the second choice, then where's the problem? Then it's just up to Jose to make good decisions. And I'm sure he'll do fine. He hasn't had a problem benching big names in the past(Casillas for example) if they're not up to the standards.

First of all, he said some simple facts and you don't have to be a genius or ex professional player to see those.

He might have said some things that were barely facts and in the end its how you interpret those facts. Winning 4-0 against two weaker sides vs last seasons performances(some of which were damn good might I remind you!) is not a comparison you should make, because it's comparing apples with oranges. You could make any kind of claims if you pick and choose those matches and results. Why not include the Super Cup defeat to Real in there? We weren't as great there and Zlatan surely would've improved us greatly there - he would've held up the ball way better than Lukaku I think.

Anyway I don't agree that you can talk about facts in the sense you seem to be talking about them. What he did was offer interpretation of the facts, which is not the same as stating facts. The fact is that we don't know how our team would've played if Zlatan didn't have that injury, played the whole pre-season with the team and then played those two games as well. It's impossible to tell how things would be.

Moreover, I can just hope he will be more prolific this season in front of goal, as last season he often missed those chances you wouldn't expect him to miss. You will now say that no one can score in every chance, but you know well he did miss a lot last season. Don't just look at number of goals he scored. You, at least like to look at statistics, so remember that his percentage of turning chances into goals was not impressive.

I think that's one thing where luck played a role. In his career he's been a good finisher but last season for some reason he didn't finish well. As much as I've read about those stats there is a significant element of luck involved and I'm guessing that it's not realistic that Zlatan will continue to miss good chances.

Anyway, my main point is that I like the football we are playing now and I don't want any player to slow us down.

I think that depends as much on the others around him. The part about Zlatan that impresses me is that he sees things around him so well that he really isn't slowing things down even if it might seem like that. I think that's more of a questionmark of what the others around him do. It's not like he is someone who can just score.

But, if José has a plan to play him often in the first 11, it is not what I'd like, especially as it would mean pushing some great young players to the bench or out of the team.

I'm sorry but the guys who he pushed out of the team just didn't offer that much to the team. As much as I love Rashford and Martial, they're just not as good as Zlatan. They might one day become as good(although I doubt it), but right now they're not as good. And when we did play without Zlatan we weren't any better last season. That should show their level. Lukaku has been better as a striker than Rashford or Martial based on this season. He isn't perfect but he has done very well.

(http://www.espnfc.com/manchester-united/story...rinho)

Key quotes from Jose:

"Zlatan knows me. And he knows that I play the players that I think are the best for the team. I always did it."

"I always did that in my life so if he comes here and he proves that he is the best, he plays. If the other ones don't give him a chance to prove that, that's life. But I try always to be honest with my players and with my team."


"I see Zlatan important for the team. I just say that my squad is better for sure, he is one more option, he is one more striker, he is one more experienced player, one more player that can play nine or 10, that can play double strikers or no, there are lots of matches to play."

Let's hope it will really be as he says.
However, last year it wasn't always like that and Jose wasn't completely coherent with this statement, as he played Zlatan too much, in almost every game, even when he was out of form or when it wasn't necessary to put him in the starting 11, like in some cup games where he could have used other players.
Now, with Lukaku in our team as a main striker, I truly hope this will change and that Zlatan will only have a secondary role. His experience and quality will surely be useful, if used in the right way.

Liverpool (yes, I know, they're the devil...) are looking really good this year. I'm watching the Liverpool - Arsenal game right now, and honestly, it looks like a practise match. Arsenal are having none of the game, Liverpool playing full of confidence & creativity. Scary to think what they'll look like should they retain Coutinho. I'm a big fan if his, great player.