I don't know how I feel about this match.

I was disappointed in how we played - we didn't manage to break their press and get our attacking players into good positions often enough. I mean - Pogba was badly punished for taking an extra touch time and again. Zlatan didn't manage to win enough of his aerial duels, which was surprising as he is so strong. Miki found it hard to move into space with the ball and although he did well he didn't have the influence you would've wanted. And Martial just didn't get into isolated situations against his man often enough. Too often when he got the ball he couldn't start running at the young right back but had to check back first and then Liverpool had three players around him and the situation was gone.

I was also disappointed by the substitutions. I think GNev talked about how these types of games are like on MNF some time this season(I don't remember whether it was after the reverse fixture or the derby). He said that in the first half or the first hour you just don't get time on the ball, which meant that Carrick didn't have too much influence on the game. In the second half there was more time and space in midfield and we lacked the brain IMO. I know people would've questioned Jose if he had decided to start someone else and bring Carrick on at half time but I think that way we would've played better - would've had more energy in the first half and then when the space opened up more brains in midfield.
I think it was similarly not great that Jose introduced Mata for Martial. I would've introduced Rashford to run at the young right back instead as there was bound to be more space there to do that in the second half and if Martial wasn't having his best day, then Rashford is the next option there..

I also think that Liverpool played very well. To get the draw with a late goal is sweet and keeps our unbeaten run going, which I think helps the team. The 5-6 weeks we have 'easier' fixtures and if we can keep winning those games, then I think that will help the team and perhaps make the crowd dream of the title or cup wins as well. The atmosphere at Old Trafford has changed in the last few months but I still feel it's a bit fragile. A few poor performances will probably create comparisons with Moyes or Van Gaal again and that doesn't help anyone.

Overall I think it was a decent result. Perhaps a bit lucky in some situations - Pogba's wrestling move could still get him in trouble and in the buildup of our goal Valencia was clearly offside.

Not the best performance though.

I mostly agree and it was more/less the same I wrote on the Serbian forum just a couple of minutes ago.

Liverpool got a very lucky break with that penalty, in the moments when it just seemed a matter of time when United were going to score the first goal. It was first of all a big mistake by Jones that lead to a corner and then Pogba was unlucky that the ball hit his arm. He was probably blinded by the floodlights and I think he didn't see the ball well.

We created 4-5 good occasions but we weren't sharp enough with the last pass/shot.

I also didn't like the substitutions and maybe putting Fellaini in made more sense than the subs where Rooney and Mata got to play. Martial maybe didn't have his best game, but he was always very dangerous and managed to draw 2-3 Liverpool players. If Mourinho wanted to take him off, than the only player to come on was Rashford. Rooney came on for Carrick, but didn't influence the game so much. Carrick didn't play the best first half, but anyway he has the brains to find the right pass and shift the play in the right moment.

I am definitely not happy with just 1 point, but considering all the facts I shouldn't be too unhappy either. It would be really bad if Liverpool won at Old Trafford, it would lift them up and it would also bring lots of critics to United and Mourinho. This way, we are a step back, but anyway we still have a good unbeaten run.

Nemanja77 wrote:

Wow, this is actually almost the team I wanted to start!

It hasn't happened for a while...

Only Shaw is missing.

Everton started this day very nice with a 4-0 victory over City, so let's continue in the same fashion :)

By the way maybe someone has heard something about him? IMO he is by far our best LB but it seems to me that Mourinho doesn't appreciate him? As far as I know, he's fit now, why isn't he playing?

Is he out of his injury and fit enough?

That, I (and you) don't know ;)

Damn I'm a fan of this story. About time!

(http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38663810)

Buggle wrote:

Damn I'm a fan of this story. About time!

(http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38663810)

As bad as he looked since coming to Man Utd, I still think we didn't use this young player well enough and we didn't handle his particular character as good as it would be expected from a club of our calibre. I have a feeling he was somewhat left to himself and therefore, suddenly covered with money and media attention the kid struggled to deal with it.
As I always said, the first error was giving him number 7 shirt, which only added to the already big pressure of expectations.

Of course, he didn't do well enough on the pitch and it's (also) his fault if he hasn't succeeded, but I think there's a lot behind.

Firstly, since Mourinho and the club didn't even want to consider the loan option, there might be some problems with Depay's attitude or maybe his bad relations with other players, despite Mourinho claiming that he is a good person, nice guy, works hard etc. etc...
That we don't know, but otherwise I don't see why didn't we opt for a loan and wait to see whether he can flourish elsewhere in EPL, if already we didn't give him playing time at United.

Moreover, we must consider the way in he was used at PSV and how much of their possession has he used there, then compare it to the amount of possession he had at United. Even Pogba struggled at his return when he didn't get the ball enough, but started to deliver when Carrick started to play alongside him.
Here is a good read about all of that:
(http://statsbomb.com/2017/01/memphis-depay-wh...ited/)

Imo, he should have got more occasions to play under Mourinho, as he is definitely a huge talent and has enormous potential. I think it's safe to say that he is much better than, for example, Lingard, who got a lot of games this season. Moreover, Memphis could also give more from a wide attacking position than Rooney or Mata who have played there this season, even though they were slightly out of position when put wide.

I know I belong to a large minority of United fans who didn't want Memphis to be sold, as I still believe that a young and super-talented player like him should have been handled in a different way and that we should have given him more trust and more playing time.

I wish him to prove himself in Lyon and I think he will, if only they use him properly.

In the end it's always about the players own motivation, application and the will to learn. I would understand it if he didn't want to change his game if he did well in matches. But he rarely did. Well.. he did very well against weaker teams, he completely destroyed players if he had time and space. But against everyone else he was pretty poor I must say. And I mean that as an overall evaluation. His end product was rarely there. You could obviously see that if he changed certain parts of his game, then he could be very good. But he didn't. For 18 months now.

I think you can't blame the club really. There have always been players who come to United that don't make it.

If anything I'd say that Van Gaal trusted and helped young players but he didn't really use Memphis too much. Which says a lot IMO.

Firstly, since Mourinho and the club didn't even want to consider the loan option, there might be some problems with Depay's attitude or maybe his bad relations with other players, despite Mourinho claiming that he is a good person, nice guy, works hard etc. etc...
That we don't know, but otherwise I don't see why didn't we opt for a loan and wait to see whether he can flourish elsewhere in EPL, if already we didn't give him playing time at United.

Maybe it's because we have a lot of talent in those positions anyway(Martial, Rashford, Mata, Miki, Rooney, Lingard, Young) and selling him with a buy-back clause makes sense.

Probably much better financially to sell him, get a good amount of money for him and get his wages off the books. Had we loaned him for a season or half a season, then we would not have got his wages. And had he not shined for another team then we would never get 20m for him.

The downside is that if he does well for Lyon, then it would cost us quite a bit to get him back but I think I'd rather pay a bit more to get him back than receive less right now. I just don't feel like he is going to become one of the greats.

Firstly, since Mourinho and the club didn't even want to consider the loan option, there might be some problems with Depay's attitude or maybe his bad relations with other players, despite Mourinho claiming that he is a good person, nice guy, works hard etc. etc...
That we don't know, but otherwise I don't see why didn't we opt for a loan and wait to see whether he can flourish elsewhere in EPL, if already we didn't give him playing time at United.

I think this depends on how you define 'better'. If we want to be a good team, then the 'usage' from statsbomb should correlate with end product - those who are better at creating/scoring goals should be using more possessions. Memphis in England hasn't been effective at creating/scoring goals. If we use stats terms then his shots are from too far out and his dribbles are too often unsuccessful etc. Again - he has to compete with the likes of Zlatan/Martial/Mata/Rooney/Miki/Rashford/Pogba and be more efficient than them to be useful for us. Lingard on the other hand is a link player whose main job is to be efficient and help the team. Defensively with his energy and offensively with playing simpler passes than Memphis. It's a bit like Mata who is there just as much for keeping the ball(but who has the bonus ability of often ghosting into good areas and creating goals).



I also hope he does well and wouldn't mind it if he came back in a few years after he has 'made it'. His style is fun to watch but he has to become more efficient.

In the end it's always about the players own motivation, application and the will to learn. I would understand it if he didn't want to change his game if he did well in matches. But he rarely did. Well.. he did very well against weaker teams, he completely destroyed players if he had time and space. But against everyone else he was pretty poor I must say. And I mean that as an overall evaluation. His end product was rarely there. You could obviously see that if he changed certain parts of his game, then he could be very good. But he didn't. For 18 months now.

I can agree about this, but consider also that we didn't play well as a club last season, in general. I think he blended with that in a way and it was also his first season in England, having to adapt with a new club, new teammates, new way of life, new opponents and most importantly a much tougher and quicker style of football. All of this, combined with enormous pressure from the media, is not easy for a young player.

We cannot blame only the club but at the same time it is not right to blame only the player, as his failure at United is due to a mix of factors.

I was really hoping that Mourinho would give him more playing time, especially because the direct style that we play now would suit him better and he would have more possibilities to use his main "weapons" like speed, dribbling and shot.
Unfortunately, somehow that didn't happen and I can only guess that he didn't impress in training, probably due to a lack of work rate or attitude which was not good enough for the gaffer. I am sure that Mourinho has seen Depay's amount of talent, so that's why I think it was something else that didn't work.
I just hope his sale will not be another one like De Bruyne, Lukaku or Matic, who Chelsea had to pay much more later to bring him back.

chuksi wrote:

In the end it's always about the players own motivation, application and the will to learn. I would understand it if he didn't want to change his game if he did well in matches. But he rarely did. Well.. he did very well against weaker teams, he completely destroyed players if he had time and space. But against everyone else he was pretty poor I must say. And I mean that as an overall evaluation. His end product was rarely there. You could obviously see that if he changed certain parts of his game, then he could be very good. But he didn't. For 18 months now.

Unfortunately it seems the biggest issue with him. Motivation. But when you said he has done good against weaker team- I won' t agree! As far as I have seen there where to Memphis' is- one with Shaw and one without Shaw. Don' t know why but it seemed to me that they where exploiting each others strenght' s- Shaw was happy that someone gave him a time for burst and Memphis enjoyed both of the options- to use the burst or to use his skill.

I always liked that player, the rare one youngster I even did know before coming to MU but he has quality! And I am very, very dissapointed that he was sold- a loan option whould be the best for him.

P.S. It' s not just my oppinion with Shaw-Memphis contribition- I have read a few articles as well about it..

I have a feeling that, if Fergie was still our manager, Shaw and Depay would be our starters on the left side week in week out.

Said that, I hope that Mourinho's man managment of Luke Shaw will bring him well on long term. Hope he's just preparing him for the LB role before putting him in there as a standard solution.

I think it is more likely that Memphis would've got more games. I'm not entirely sure about Shaw because he has had more injuries than you'd hope. I think it's not about Memphis or Fergie really but about the stability at the club. If Fergie had bought Memphis he would have played him more and perhaps been able to adjust the team to suit him more. With managers changing I think it's a problem that the managers need to get the team play their style and you need more continuity for that, which means fringe players will not get as many chances..

At least I hope Jose will start rotating more next year when the team is already doing what he wants etc. This season while I would like to see Fosu-Mensah, Memphis or even Schweini more I think it makes sense to play the winning team as long as the team is still getting to know each other and trying to understand what they need to do as a team.

We are not lucky today :(

There's still 45 minutes to go. I'm not too worried.

Well. It is only a must win game to keep up with the top 4.

Also, haven't watched the game at all; how does Mata score an own goal?

He tried to block a cross and it deflected to the first post basically.

When was the last time we got a penalty in Premier league?

ROONEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

A few weird decisions, yeah.

Nice free kick by Rooney.

All in all it was not a good performance in attack IMO. We created chances but things just didn't click at all. So many missed opportunities for through balls, one-twos and whatnot. Was quite frustrating to watch. But even when we played like that we created a lot of chances and kept them to very few chances.

Unlucky to lose 2 points I'd say. Overall team performance was good but it wasn't a good day for our attackers..

I liked the way they kept at it until the end and didn't allow Stoke to have dangerous counters.

Room for improvement but the general level is good, unlike the last 3 and a half years has been.

I think, if he was okey, Fellaini should have been in the field.

Maybe Rashford x Mata and Rooney x Miki, although I think Rooney didn't have a good performance (except in the goal, but it is a lone play)

4½ min highlight video. If I didn't know and there wasn't the mistake by Mata, I wouldn't know if it was Stoke or Farnborough...

Free kick goal is 3:55 in.

(http://www.bold.dk/fodbold/nyheder/rooney-rek...asse/)